Discussion:
MIRACLES OF GOD AND MIRACLES OF SCIENCE
(too old to reply)
Dr. Jai Maharaj
2005-08-14 20:43:29 UTC
Permalink
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science

Miracles of God and Miracles of Science

By David M. Phelps, Associate Editor
Acton.org
August 10, 2005

Doctors have delivered a 1 lb. 13 oz. baby girl from
Susan Torres, a pregnant woman from Arlington, Virginia
who had been on life support for three months since a
cancer-induced stroke left her brain-dead. At the request
of Torres’s husband, doctors kept her body alive long
enough for the child to have a chance of life outside the
womb, carefully monitoring both patients to make sure the
cancer did not spread to the developing baby. When the
child was finally delivered, the family released a
statement thanking God, and many hailed the birth a
miracle.

The faith of the family, the race against time, the
coolheaded, sure-handed medical staff -- the story is
nothing short of inspirational. But skeptics might wonder
why God so often gets credit for the good work of trained
physicians. Where is the line between thanking Providence
and thanking Technology? In other words, are "miracles"
such as the one in Virginia miracles of God or miracles
of science?

In the minds of many, there is a vague notion that
somehow God and science are necessarily in competition.
We see this opposition take form in the debates between
creationism and evolution, between church and state,
where faith is pitted against reason, the secular against
the sacred. Why isn’t this opposition more often
transferred to our discussions of medicine as well?

The reason may be that physicians recognize more readily
the relationship between God and science. A recent study
by the University of Chicago showed that seventy-six
percent of physicians believe in God, and fifty-five
percent say their faith influences their medical
practice. It seems that the dichotomy between faith and
science, while common in popular discourse, is not as
popular as among doctors themselves.

It is obvious that something great happened in Virginia
and someone is to thank for it. But in matters such as
this, we need not thank God to the exclusion of thanking
the doctors, or vice versa. The work of doctors and the
work of God are inextricably linked.

We are, after all, created in the image of a creative
God. We have reason, intelligence, creativity, and an
inherently entrepreneurial approach to the mysteries of
the world. We are Curious Georges who want not only to
know how the big machine works, but how we can work the
machine to serve ourselves and one another.

This is exactly the nature of medicine. Medicine is a
journey into the unknown, further up and further into the
mysteries of life. Most doctors know that they do not
have all the answers, and as the University of Chicago
study shows, no one knows this better than the doctors
themselves.

It is an important truth that our creative acts,
including our medical acts, are by nature derivative and
collaborative. Doctors receive their talents from God,
and insofar as their technological work cooperates with
God’s work -- insofar as their goals are in keeping with
God’s goals -- the thanks for technological miracle-working
are rightly given both to God and to the physicians
themselves.

The key here is that when doctors employ their talents as
they did recently in Virginia, they cooperate with God in
the service of life. In essence, they collaborate with
life; they do not control it and do not create it.
(Notice that no one calls abortion and euthanasia
‘miracles of science.’) It is telling that Torres’s
doctor said it was "almost miraculous" that Torres made
it as long as she did. Doctors simply don’t know how
things will turn out, and they know that they don’t know
it.

So it should be no surprise that, by and large, doctors
believe in God and practice accordingly. It should be no
surprise that the term miracle is often used when
speaking of successful, daring medical procedures. It
should be no surprise that patients who receive state-of-
the-art treatment from doctors thank God for it.

Faith and reason, religion and science: we ought to stop
framing these terms in the context of competition.
Rather, they testify to a collaborative, communal
relationship between God and man, and not to some falsely
intrinsic opposition.

David Michael Phelps is associate editor at the Acton
Institute.

http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/comment/article.php?article=281

- - - - - - -

Posted on 8/14/2005 12:49:19 PM PDT by Brooklyn Kid

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: Brooklyn Kid

Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.

Posted on 8/14/2005 1:13:50 PM PDT by mc6809e

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: mc6809e
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Cure for leprosy from Leviticus 14

1 - Get two birds
2 - Kill one bird
3 - Dip live bird in blood of dead bird
4 - put blood on leper.
5 - release live bird
6 - kill lamb
7 - put lamb blood on lepers right ear, thumb and toe
8 - sprinkle leper with oil and putt a little on his
right rear, thumb and toe
9 - repeat (and rinse)
10 - kill two pigeons, one for holocaust and one for sin
11 - on the eighth day offer them (lamb and pigeons too I
think) to the priest at the tabernacle

I'll skip the rest as it just gets sillier.

Posted on 8/14/2005 1:33:59 PM PDT by ndt

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
God
2005-08-14 21:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
skeptics might wonder
why God so often gets credit for the good work of trained
physicians.
Only a god-bothering twat would think that all skeptics didn't already
know the answer to that, we'red just too polite to spell it out,
except when provoked sufficiently by morons like Maharaj who
constantly troll alt.atheism wioth moronic platitudes like this, so
here goes: It's because god botherers are as thick as sheep shit.
David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208

Either religion goes or civilisation does. It's that simple.
Bill
2005-08-15 19:16:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
By David M. Phelps, Associate Editor
Acton.org
August 10, 2005
Doctors have delivered a 1 lb. 13 oz. baby girl from
Susan Torres, a pregnant woman from Arlington, Virginia
who had been on life support for three months since a
cancer-induced stroke left her brain-dead. At the request
of Torres’s husband, doctors kept her body alive long
enough for the child to have a chance of life outside the
womb, carefully monitoring both patients to make sure the
cancer did not spread to the developing baby. When the
child was finally delivered, the family released a
statement thanking God, and many hailed the birth a
miracle.
let's get the logic on this.

God gave the mother cancer and caused her to become brain dead before her
baby
was ready for a normal birth. Realizing how stupid and vicious he was he had
the 1 Lb.
13 Oz. baby delivered alive and allowed it to live on life support. It will
survive but with many
serious handicaps.

If this was truly the work of a God he is certainly a blithering idiot!
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
The faith of the family, the race against time, the
coolheaded, sure-handed medical staff -- the story is
nothing short of inspirational. But skeptics might wonder
why God so often gets credit for the good work of trained
physicians. Where is the line between thanking Providence
and thanking Technology? In other words, are "miracles"
such as the one in Virginia miracles of God or miracles
of science?
In the minds of many, there is a vague notion that
somehow God and science are necessarily in competition.
We see this opposition take form in the debates between
creationism and evolution, between church and state,
where faith is pitted against reason, the secular against
the sacred. Why isn’t this opposition more often
transferred to our discussions of medicine as well?
The reason may be that physicians recognize more readily
the relationship between God and science. A recent study
by the University of Chicago showed that seventy-six
percent of physicians believe in God, and fifty-five
percent say their faith influences their medical
practice. It seems that the dichotomy between faith and
science, while common in popular discourse, is not as
popular as among doctors themselves.
It is obvious that something great happened in Virginia
and someone is to thank for it. But in matters such as
this, we need not thank God to the exclusion of thanking
the doctors, or vice versa. The work of doctors and the
work of God are inextricably linked.
We are, after all, created in the image of a creative
God. We have reason, intelligence, creativity, and an
inherently entrepreneurial approach to the mysteries of
the world. We are Curious Georges who want not only to
know how the big machine works, but how we can work the
machine to serve ourselves and one another.
This is exactly the nature of medicine. Medicine is a
journey into the unknown, further up and further into the
mysteries of life. Most doctors know that they do not
have all the answers, and as the University of Chicago
study shows, no one knows this better than the doctors
themselves.
It is an important truth that our creative acts,
including our medical acts, are by nature derivative and
collaborative. Doctors receive their talents from God,
and insofar as their technological work cooperates with
God’s work -- insofar as their goals are in keeping with
God’s goals -- the thanks for technological miracle-working
are rightly given both to God and to the physicians
themselves.
The key here is that when doctors employ their talents as
they did recently in Virginia, they cooperate with God in
the service of life. In essence, they collaborate with
life; they do not control it and do not create it.
(Notice that no one calls abortion and euthanasia
‘miracles of science.’) It is telling that Torres’s
doctor said it was "almost miraculous" that Torres made
it as long as she did. Doctors simply don’t know how
things will turn out, and they know that they don’t know
it.
So it should be no surprise that, by and large, doctors
believe in God and practice accordingly. It should be no
surprise that the term miracle is often used when
speaking of successful, daring medical procedures. It
should be no surprise that patients who receive state-of-
the-art treatment from doctors thank God for it.
Faith and reason, religion and science: we ought to stop
framing these terms in the context of competition.
Rather, they testify to a collaborative, communal
relationship between God and man, and not to some falsely
intrinsic opposition.
David Michael Phelps is associate editor at the Acton
Institute.
http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/comment/article.php?article=281
- - - - - - -
Posted on 8/14/2005 12:49:19 PM PDT by Brooklyn Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Brooklyn Kid
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:13:50 PM PDT by mc6809e
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: mc6809e
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Cure for leprosy from Leviticus 14
1 - Get two birds
2 - Kill one bird
3 - Dip live bird in blood of dead bird
4 - put blood on leper.
5 - release live bird
6 - kill lamb
7 - put lamb blood on lepers right ear, thumb and toe
8 - sprinkle leper with oil and putt a little on his
right rear, thumb and toe
9 - repeat (and rinse)
10 - kill two pigeons, one for holocaust and one for sin
11 - on the eighth day offer them (lamb and pigeons too I
think) to the priest at the tabernacle
I'll skip the rest as it just gets sillier.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:33:59 PM PDT by ndt
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
harmony
2005-08-17 16:55:43 UTC
Permalink
this kirastani god-miracle is not different from all the doctor-assisted
kirastani-god miracles of lady known to the unsuspecting as mother terresa.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
By David M. Phelps, Associate Editor
Acton.org
August 10, 2005
Doctors have delivered a 1 lb. 13 oz. baby girl from
Susan Torres, a pregnant woman from Arlington, Virginia
who had been on life support for three months since a
cancer-induced stroke left her brain-dead. At the request
of Torres’s husband, doctors kept her body alive long
enough for the child to have a chance of life outside the
womb, carefully monitoring both patients to make sure the
cancer did not spread to the developing baby. When the
child was finally delivered, the family released a
statement thanking God, and many hailed the birth a
miracle.
The faith of the family, the race against time, the
coolheaded, sure-handed medical staff -- the story is
nothing short of inspirational. But skeptics might wonder
why God so often gets credit for the good work of trained
physicians. Where is the line between thanking Providence
and thanking Technology? In other words, are "miracles"
such as the one in Virginia miracles of God or miracles
of science?
In the minds of many, there is a vague notion that
somehow God and science are necessarily in competition.
We see this opposition take form in the debates between
creationism and evolution, between church and state,
where faith is pitted against reason, the secular against
the sacred. Why isn’t this opposition more often
transferred to our discussions of medicine as well?
The reason may be that physicians recognize more readily
the relationship between God and science. A recent study
by the University of Chicago showed that seventy-six
percent of physicians believe in God, and fifty-five
percent say their faith influences their medical
practice. It seems that the dichotomy between faith and
science, while common in popular discourse, is not as
popular as among doctors themselves.
It is obvious that something great happened in Virginia
and someone is to thank for it. But in matters such as
this, we need not thank God to the exclusion of thanking
the doctors, or vice versa. The work of doctors and the
work of God are inextricably linked.
We are, after all, created in the image of a creative
God. We have reason, intelligence, creativity, and an
inherently entrepreneurial approach to the mysteries of
the world. We are Curious Georges who want not only to
know how the big machine works, but how we can work the
machine to serve ourselves and one another.
This is exactly the nature of medicine. Medicine is a
journey into the unknown, further up and further into the
mysteries of life. Most doctors know that they do not
have all the answers, and as the University of Chicago
study shows, no one knows this better than the doctors
themselves.
It is an important truth that our creative acts,
including our medical acts, are by nature derivative and
collaborative. Doctors receive their talents from God,
and insofar as their technological work cooperates with
God’s work -- insofar as their goals are in keeping with
God’s goals -- the thanks for technological miracle-working
are rightly given both to God and to the physicians
themselves.
The key here is that when doctors employ their talents as
they did recently in Virginia, they cooperate with God in
the service of life. In essence, they collaborate with
life; they do not control it and do not create it.
(Notice that no one calls abortion and euthanasia
‘miracles of science.’) It is telling that Torres’s
doctor said it was "almost miraculous" that Torres made
it as long as she did. Doctors simply don’t know how
things will turn out, and they know that they don’t know
it.
So it should be no surprise that, by and large, doctors
believe in God and practice accordingly. It should be no
surprise that the term miracle is often used when
speaking of successful, daring medical procedures. It
should be no surprise that patients who receive state-of-
the-art treatment from doctors thank God for it.
Faith and reason, religion and science: we ought to stop
framing these terms in the context of competition.
Rather, they testify to a collaborative, communal
relationship between God and man, and not to some falsely
intrinsic opposition.
David Michael Phelps is associate editor at the Acton
Institute.
http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/comment/article.php?article=281
- - - - - - -
Posted on 8/14/2005 12:49:19 PM PDT by Brooklyn Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Brooklyn Kid
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:13:50 PM PDT by mc6809e
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: mc6809e
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Cure for leprosy from Leviticus 14
1 - Get two birds
2 - Kill one bird
3 - Dip live bird in blood of dead bird
4 - put blood on leper.
5 - release live bird
6 - kill lamb
7 - put lamb blood on lepers right ear, thumb and toe
8 - sprinkle leper with oil and putt a little on his
right rear, thumb and toe
9 - repeat (and rinse)
10 - kill two pigeons, one for holocaust and one for sin
11 - on the eighth day offer them (lamb and pigeons too I
think) to the priest at the tabernacle
I'll skip the rest as it just gets sillier.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:33:59 PM PDT by ndt
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
Dr. Jai Maharaj
2005-08-17 20:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Fraud City, in other words?

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Post by harmony
this kirastani god-miracle is not different from all the doctor-assisted
kirastani-god miracles of lady known to the unsuspecting as mother terresa.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
By David M. Phelps, Associate Editor
Acton.org
August 10, 2005
Doctors have delivered a 1 lb. 13 oz. baby girl from
Susan Torres, a pregnant woman from Arlington, Virginia
who had been on life support for three months since a
cancer-induced stroke left her brain-dead. At the request
of Torres’s husband, doctors kept her body alive long
enough for the child to have a chance of life outside the
womb, carefully monitoring both patients to make sure the
cancer did not spread to the developing baby. When the
child was finally delivered, the family released a
statement thanking God, and many hailed the birth a
miracle.
The faith of the family, the race against time, the
coolheaded, sure-handed medical staff -- the story is
nothing short of inspirational. But skeptics might wonder
why God so often gets credit for the good work of trained
physicians. Where is the line between thanking Providence
and thanking Technology? In other words, are "miracles"
such as the one in Virginia miracles of God or miracles
of science?
In the minds of many, there is a vague notion that
somehow God and science are necessarily in competition.
We see this opposition take form in the debates between
creationism and evolution, between church and state,
where faith is pitted against reason, the secular against
the sacred. Why isn’t this opposition more often
transferred to our discussions of medicine as well?
The reason may be that physicians recognize more readily
the relationship between God and science. A recent study
by the University of Chicago showed that seventy-six
percent of physicians believe in God, and fifty-five
percent say their faith influences their medical
practice. It seems that the dichotomy between faith and
science, while common in popular discourse, is not as
popular as among doctors themselves.
It is obvious that something great happened in Virginia
and someone is to thank for it. But in matters such as
this, we need not thank God to the exclusion of thanking
the doctors, or vice versa. The work of doctors and the
work of God are inextricably linked.
We are, after all, created in the image of a creative
God. We have reason, intelligence, creativity, and an
inherently entrepreneurial approach to the mysteries of
the world. We are Curious Georges who want not only to
know how the big machine works, but how we can work the
machine to serve ourselves and one another.
This is exactly the nature of medicine. Medicine is a
journey into the unknown, further up and further into the
mysteries of life. Most doctors know that they do not
have all the answers, and as the University of Chicago
study shows, no one knows this better than the doctors
themselves.
It is an important truth that our creative acts,
including our medical acts, are by nature derivative and
collaborative. Doctors receive their talents from God,
and insofar as their technological work cooperates with
God’s work -- insofar as their goals are in keeping with
God’s goals -- the thanks for technological miracle-working
are rightly given both to God and to the physicians
themselves.
The key here is that when doctors employ their talents as
they did recently in Virginia, they cooperate with God in
the service of life. In essence, they collaborate with
life; they do not control it and do not create it.
(Notice that no one calls abortion and euthanasia
‘miracles of science.’) It is telling that Torres’s
doctor said it was "almost miraculous" that Torres made
it as long as she did. Doctors simply don’t know how
things will turn out, and they know that they don’t know
it.
So it should be no surprise that, by and large, doctors
believe in God and practice accordingly. It should be no
surprise that the term miracle is often used when
speaking of successful, daring medical procedures. It
should be no surprise that patients who receive state-of-
the-art treatment from doctors thank God for it.
Faith and reason, religion and science: we ought to stop
framing these terms in the context of competition.
Rather, they testify to a collaborative, communal
relationship between God and man, and not to some falsely
intrinsic opposition.
David Michael Phelps is associate editor at the Acton
Institute.
http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/comment/article.php?article=281
- - - - - - -
Posted on 8/14/2005 12:49:19 PM PDT by Brooklyn Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Brooklyn Kid
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:13:50 PM PDT by mc6809e
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: mc6809e
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Cure for leprosy from Leviticus 14
1 - Get two birds
2 - Kill one bird
3 - Dip live bird in blood of dead bird
4 - put blood on leper.
5 - release live bird
6 - kill lamb
7 - put lamb blood on lepers right ear, thumb and toe
8 - sprinkle leper with oil and putt a little on his
right rear, thumb and toe
9 - repeat (and rinse)
10 - kill two pigeons, one for holocaust and one for sin
11 - on the eighth day offer them (lamb and pigeons too I
think) to the priest at the tabernacle
I'll skip the rest as it just gets sillier.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:33:59 PM PDT by ndt
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
not
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
are
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
Title
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
harmony
2005-08-17 20:52:13 UTC
Permalink
ain't that the truth.
america is seeing a whole lot of kirastanis behave irrationally. it seems
like they spend a whole lot of time on things that has no real gnp value.

btw, that alabama judge who had ten commandments in his court and wasted a
lot of gnp hours: he is an avid hunter, and one them 10 commandments tells
you not to kill.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Fraud City, in other words?
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Post by harmony
this kirastani god-miracle is not different from all the doctor-assisted
kirastani-god miracles of lady known to the unsuspecting as mother terresa.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
By David M. Phelps, Associate Editor
Acton.org
August 10, 2005
Doctors have delivered a 1 lb. 13 oz. baby girl from
Susan Torres, a pregnant woman from Arlington, Virginia
who had been on life support for three months since a
cancer-induced stroke left her brain-dead. At the request
of Torres’s husband, doctors kept her body alive long
enough for the child to have a chance of life outside the
womb, carefully monitoring both patients to make sure the
cancer did not spread to the developing baby. When the
child was finally delivered, the family released a
statement thanking God, and many hailed the birth a
miracle.
The faith of the family, the race against time, the
coolheaded, sure-handed medical staff -- the story is
nothing short of inspirational. But skeptics might wonder
why God so often gets credit for the good work of trained
physicians. Where is the line between thanking Providence
and thanking Technology? In other words, are "miracles"
such as the one in Virginia miracles of God or miracles
of science?
In the minds of many, there is a vague notion that
somehow God and science are necessarily in competition.
We see this opposition take form in the debates between
creationism and evolution, between church and state,
where faith is pitted against reason, the secular against
the sacred. Why isn’t this opposition more often
transferred to our discussions of medicine as well?
The reason may be that physicians recognize more readily
the relationship between God and science. A recent study
by the University of Chicago showed that seventy-six
percent of physicians believe in God, and fifty-five
percent say their faith influences their medical
practice. It seems that the dichotomy between faith and
science, while common in popular discourse, is not as
popular as among doctors themselves.
It is obvious that something great happened in Virginia
and someone is to thank for it. But in matters such as
this, we need not thank God to the exclusion of thanking
the doctors, or vice versa. The work of doctors and the
work of God are inextricably linked.
We are, after all, created in the image of a creative
God. We have reason, intelligence, creativity, and an
inherently entrepreneurial approach to the mysteries of
the world. We are Curious Georges who want not only to
know how the big machine works, but how we can work the
machine to serve ourselves and one another.
This is exactly the nature of medicine. Medicine is a
journey into the unknown, further up and further into the
mysteries of life. Most doctors know that they do not
have all the answers, and as the University of Chicago
study shows, no one knows this better than the doctors
themselves.
It is an important truth that our creative acts,
including our medical acts, are by nature derivative and
collaborative. Doctors receive their talents from God,
and insofar as their technological work cooperates with
God’s work -- insofar as their goals are in keeping with
God’s goals -- the thanks for technological miracle-working
are rightly given both to God and to the physicians
themselves.
The key here is that when doctors employ their talents as
they did recently in Virginia, they cooperate with God in
the service of life. In essence, they collaborate with
life; they do not control it and do not create it.
(Notice that no one calls abortion and euthanasia
‘miracles of science.’) It is telling that Torres’s
doctor said it was "almost miraculous" that Torres made
it as long as she did. Doctors simply don’t know how
things will turn out, and they know that they don’t know
it.
So it should be no surprise that, by and large, doctors
believe in God and practice accordingly. It should be no
surprise that the term miracle is often used when
speaking of successful, daring medical procedures. It
should be no surprise that patients who receive state-of-
the-art treatment from doctors thank God for it.
Faith and reason, religion and science: we ought to stop
framing these terms in the context of competition.
Rather, they testify to a collaborative, communal
relationship between God and man, and not to some falsely
intrinsic opposition.
David Michael Phelps is associate editor at the Acton
Institute.
http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/comment/article.php?article=281
- - - - - - -
Posted on 8/14/2005 12:49:19 PM PDT by Brooklyn Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Brooklyn Kid
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:13:50 PM PDT by mc6809e
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: mc6809e
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Cure for leprosy from Leviticus 14
1 - Get two birds
2 - Kill one bird
3 - Dip live bird in blood of dead bird
4 - put blood on leper.
5 - release live bird
6 - kill lamb
7 - put lamb blood on lepers right ear, thumb and toe
8 - sprinkle leper with oil and putt a little on his
right rear, thumb and toe
9 - repeat (and rinse)
10 - kill two pigeons, one for holocaust and one for sin
11 - on the eighth day offer them (lamb and pigeons too I
think) to the priest at the tabernacle
I'll skip the rest as it just gets sillier.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:33:59 PM PDT by ndt
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
not
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others
are
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
Title
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
Dr. Jai Maharaj
2005-08-17 21:04:10 UTC
Permalink
These people are killers and they won't let their own strongman's
commandments get in the way.

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Post by harmony
ain't that the truth.
america is seeing a whole lot of kirastanis behave irrationally. it seems
like they spend a whole lot of time on things that has no real gnp value.
btw, that alabama judge who had ten commandments in his court and wasted a
lot of gnp hours: he is an avid hunter, and one them 10 commandments tells
you not to kill.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Fraud City, in other words?
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Post by harmony
this kirastani god-miracle is not different from all the doctor-assisted
kirastani-god miracles of lady known to the unsuspecting as mother
terresa.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
Miracles of God and Miracles of Science
By David M. Phelps, Associate Editor
Acton.org
August 10, 2005
Doctors have delivered a 1 lb. 13 oz. baby girl from
Susan Torres, a pregnant woman from Arlington, Virginia
who had been on life support for three months since a
cancer-induced stroke left her brain-dead. At the request
of Torres’s husband, doctors kept her body alive long
enough for the child to have a chance of life outside the
womb, carefully monitoring both patients to make sure the
cancer did not spread to the developing baby. When the
child was finally delivered, the family released a
statement thanking God, and many hailed the birth a
miracle.
The faith of the family, the race against time, the
coolheaded, sure-handed medical staff -- the story is
nothing short of inspirational. But skeptics might wonder
why God so often gets credit for the good work of trained
physicians. Where is the line between thanking Providence
and thanking Technology? In other words, are "miracles"
such as the one in Virginia miracles of God or miracles
of science?
In the minds of many, there is a vague notion that
somehow God and science are necessarily in competition.
We see this opposition take form in the debates between
creationism and evolution, between church and state,
where faith is pitted against reason, the secular against
the sacred. Why isn’t this opposition more often
transferred to our discussions of medicine as well?
The reason may be that physicians recognize more readily
the relationship between God and science. A recent study
by the University of Chicago showed that seventy-six
percent of physicians believe in God, and fifty-five
percent say their faith influences their medical
practice. It seems that the dichotomy between faith and
science, while common in popular discourse, is not as
popular as among doctors themselves.
It is obvious that something great happened in Virginia
and someone is to thank for it. But in matters such as
this, we need not thank God to the exclusion of thanking
the doctors, or vice versa. The work of doctors and the
work of God are inextricably linked.
We are, after all, created in the image of a creative
God. We have reason, intelligence, creativity, and an
inherently entrepreneurial approach to the mysteries of
the world. We are Curious Georges who want not only to
know how the big machine works, but how we can work the
machine to serve ourselves and one another.
This is exactly the nature of medicine. Medicine is a
journey into the unknown, further up and further into the
mysteries of life. Most doctors know that they do not
have all the answers, and as the University of Chicago
study shows, no one knows this better than the doctors
themselves.
It is an important truth that our creative acts,
including our medical acts, are by nature derivative and
collaborative. Doctors receive their talents from God,
and insofar as their technological work cooperates with
God’s work -- insofar as their goals are in keeping with
God’s goals -- the thanks for technological miracle-working
are rightly given both to God and to the physicians
themselves.
The key here is that when doctors employ their talents as
they did recently in Virginia, they cooperate with God in
the service of life. In essence, they collaborate with
life; they do not control it and do not create it.
(Notice that no one calls abortion and euthanasia
‘miracles of science.’) It is telling that Torres’s
doctor said it was "almost miraculous" that Torres made
it as long as she did. Doctors simply don’t know how
things will turn out, and they know that they don’t know
it.
So it should be no surprise that, by and large, doctors
believe in God and practice accordingly. It should be no
surprise that the term miracle is often used when
speaking of successful, daring medical procedures. It
should be no surprise that patients who receive state-of-
the-art treatment from doctors thank God for it.
Faith and reason, religion and science: we ought to stop
framing these terms in the context of competition.
Rather, they testify to a collaborative, communal
relationship between God and man, and not to some falsely
intrinsic opposition.
David Michael Phelps is associate editor at the Acton
Institute.
http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/comment/article.php?article=281
- - - - - - -
Posted on 8/14/2005 12:49:19 PM PDT by Brooklyn Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Brooklyn Kid
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:13:50 PM PDT by mc6809e
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: mc6809e
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Funny how many more "miracles" there have been since
science started lending God a hand.
Cure for leprosy from Leviticus 14
1 - Get two birds
2 - Kill one bird
3 - Dip live bird in blood of dead bird
4 - put blood on leper.
5 - release live bird
6 - kill lamb
7 - put lamb blood on lepers right ear, thumb and toe
8 - sprinkle leper with oil and putt a little on his
right rear, thumb and toe
9 - repeat (and rinse)
10 - kill two pigeons, one for holocaust and one for sin
11 - on the eighth day offer them (lamb and pigeons too I
think) to the priest at the tabernacle
I'll skip the rest as it just gets sillier.
Posted on 8/14/2005 1:33:59 PM PDT by ndt
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so
send
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and
the
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her
mother in
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post
may
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
not
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of
the
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption
for
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
current
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by
others
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
are
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use
of
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the
copyright
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is
believed
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance
with
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Title
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed
without
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes
by
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more
information
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes
of
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from
the
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
Post by harmony
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
copyright owner.
Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
l***@yahoo.ca
2005-08-17 21:11:44 UTC
Permalink
That is why no Hindu in India or outside ever gets sick. The Hindu
Gods take care of them. Somehow some guys from India won't mind
serving these irrational Kristianis to make a living. What is the
rationality of following and obeying these irrational kristianis?
Continue reading on narkive:
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